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» The web services schism from Rough Type: Nicholas Carr's Blog
Anyone interested in the future of business software will want to read John Hagel's post on the tensions between service-oriented architecture (SOA) and Web 2.0 and how those tensions might come to be resolved. Despite the fact that SOA and Web 2.0 sha... [Read More]

» When the worlds of SOA and Web 2.0 collide from Enterprise Web 2.0
Noted business and IT forward-thinker John Hagel wrote a detailed piece yesterday about what he calls the "highly dysfunctional gap" between SOA and Web 2.0. And it's true, there are few worlds in the IT industry that seem more opposite from each othe... [Read More]

» SOA and/or Web 2.0? from GigerBlog
John Hagel has an interesting article on the difference between Service Oriented Architectures (SOA) and Web 2.0: When you talk to SOA proponents today, you will hear a lot about connecting applications and databases, but not a lot about connecting peo... [Read More]

» SOA vs Web 2.0? This is just nuts from JasonKolb.com
There's been a lot of discussion lately about SOA vs. Web 2.0. See these posts by John Hagel and Jeff Nolan. This is just wrong, wrong, wrong. In my eyes they are the EXACT SAME THING. This debate about REST [Read More]

» Web 2.0 and Service Oriented Architectures (SOA) from Ideascape is social networks - innovation platform - collaboration
Mr. Hagel has a great post on, ...what is the relationship between Web 2.0 and Service Oriented Architectures (SOA)? SOA Versus Web 2.0?, John Hagel - Edge Perspectives ...a cultural chasm separates these two tech [Read More]

» Simplicity, Incentives, Semantic Web and Web 2.0 from AI3 - Adaptive Information:::
Despite page ranking and other techniques, the scale of the Internet is straining available commercial search engines to deliver truly relevant content. This observation is not new, but its relevance is growing. Similarly, the integration... [Read More]

» Enterprise 2.0 - the dialogue begins from Technofile
I wrote a few months ago about the fact that all the Web 2.0 buzz was about consumer applications that were often quite cool, but not really enterprise-grade. Well the discussion has finally shifted toward working out what Web 2.0 [Read More]

» links for 2006-09-20 from Bruce's Blog
Edge Perspectives with John Hagel: SOA Versus Web 2.0? More on web 2.0 and enterprise 2.0 etc. etc. (tags: Enterprise2.0 ideas innovation saas software strategy web2.0 web_services) Simons Jamjar: Lessons in Choosing Domain Names | A Quirky,... [Read More]

» http://www.brucelewin.co.uk/blog/2006/09/19/links-for-2006-09-20/ from Bruce's Blog
Edge Perspectives with John Hagel: SOA Versus Web 2.0? More on web 2.0 and enterprise 2.0 etc. etc. (tags: Enterprise2.0 ideas innovation saas software strategy web2.0 web_services) Simons Jamjar: Lessons in Choosing Domain Names | A Quirky, ... [Read More]

Comments

MiamiWebDesigner

Discourses and debates about SOA vs. Web 2.0 will drone on and drag out until those two terms have generally accepted definitions more concise than what might arguably be described as fuzzy framework and techno-hype menagerie.

Bruce Arnold
Web Designer
PervasivePersuasion.com
Miami, Florida

Doron Raz

I would think that just because of this great pressure to adopt the web 2.0 technologies and the apparent contrast with SOA initiatives in the organizations - managers should first strive to figure out the prospect of the two for their specific organization and deploy the exact needed portion of web 2.0 accordingly.
Otherwise it might create an unbalancing effect from which it will take a lot of (expensive) time to recover.

Enterprise 2.0, in contrast to Web 2.0, needs not only to align with existing regulations of the organization - it must also be operated in conjunction with company's targets and goals.

Organizations can't afford achieving this through trial and error.

Tamas Hevizi

It is interesting that most of our large enterprise clients have an SOA strategy and roadmap either in the works or being deployed. Web 2.0, however, especially segments like social networks and collaboration have eluded most IT shops and traditional approaches and tools dominate the roadmaps.

Ronan Bradley

An excellent article which I agree with up to the point when you say:

"SOAs were hijacked by an alliance of CIOs and IT consulting firms, each with their own reason for extending the effort required to deploy SOAs."

I agree that there has been a long-standing defense mechanism among big consulting firms to turn everything new technology into a strategy project = $$$. I also agree that this is a threat to the eventual adoption of SOA. However, some if not most proponents of SOA have always stressed the incremental approach to ensure business sees benefit quickly enough to keep the faith. To put it another way: there is a stuggle but the war isn't lost just yet.

*And* what makes you think that the same consultancy companies won't "hi-jack" web2.0 like you believe that they have done with SOA.

You then follow it up with:

"CIOs have become more and more risk averse for a variety of reasons."

and

"First, Web 2.0 technologists need to work on connecting directly with line executives of large enterprises without trying to go through the IT departments."

Firstly, CIOs are risk adverse because there is little tolerance of technology failure among the business lines and C-level management unless the potential gains are huge - and even then...

Secondly, the idea of attempting to almost set Web2.0 against the IT department seems high risk and strange: surely the IT department will see the benefit of quick wins and happy users - particularly as many Web2.0 applications are initially far from the core systems (which SOA typically focuses on) and which are inherently slower to change as they are more critical.

Don't get me wrong - I am an advocate of using Web2.0 in the enterprise but see it as something entirely consistent with SOA and have written about it recently on my own blog at http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/soaroads.

The IT departments aren't your enemies (for the most part) - to promote Web2.0 effectively in the enterprise, you need to incorporate the enterprise perspective without losing the newness of Web2.0. To run in shouting "all you know is wrong"" will almost certainly guarantee Enterprise Web2.0 to failure: the business have heard it all before too often.

Ronan Bradley

An excellent article which I agree with up to the point when you say:

"SOAs were hijacked by an alliance of CIOs and IT consulting firms, each with their own reason for extending the effort required to deploy SOAs."

I agree that there has been a long-standing defense mechanism among big consulting firms to turn everything new technology into a strategy project = $$$. I also agree that this is a threat to the eventual adoption of SOA. However, some if not most proponents of SOA have always stressed the incremental approach to ensure business sees benefit quickly enough to keep the faith. To put it another way: there is a stuggle but the war isn't lost just yet.

*And* what makes you think that the same consultancy companies won't "hi-jack" web2.0 like you believe that they have done with SOA.

You then follow it up with:

"CIOs have become more and more risk averse for a variety of reasons."

and

"First, Web 2.0 technologists need to work on connecting directly with line executives of large enterprises without trying to go through the IT departments."

Firstly, CIOs are risk adverse because there is little tolerance of technology failure among the business lines and C-level management unless the potential gains are huge - and even then...

Secondly, the idea of attempting to almost set Web2.0 against the IT department seems high risk and strange: surely the IT department will see the benefit of quick wins and happy users - particularly as many Web2.0 applications are initially far from the core systems (which SOA typically focuses on) and which are inherently slower to change as they are more critical. Why can't you convince them of the benefits?

Don't get me wrong - I am an advocate of using Web2.0 in the enterprise but see it as something entirely consistent with SOA and have blogged about it recently in my blog ( http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/soaroads).

The IT departments aren't your enemies (for the most part) - to promote Web2.0 effectively in the enterprise, you need to incorporate the enterprise perspective without losing the newness of Web2.0. To run in shouting "all you know is wrong"" will almost certainly guarantee Enterprise Web2.0 will fail: the business have heard it all before too often.

Howard Smith

In all the excitement about SOA and Web 2.0, let's not forget that:

- Companies can only create new value by changing old processes for new
- SOA is, at best, a substrate or operating system within which companies will deploy BPM tools to achieve new productivity

- Web 2.0 is SOA at planetary scale, but currently lacks a BPM system

That 1970s Guy

Software was always a service. Just because a few companies tried to make it into something more like crackerjack doesn't change history.

Makio Yamazaki

John-san、

"The world is flat."
Thomas Friedman called it "Globalization 3.0".
According to Peter Drucker, he also says that we have "the information" at anytime and anywhere in the world.
Therefore, customer has begun to have too many informations.
The company which provides "services" must support the business agilities to adapt to the market and the customer needs.
In other words, the one which was core so far converts into the context without keeping time soon.
Even if only the executive that was excellent of the big company supposes, will be difficult to support these various and rapid changes ?
Therefore, we consider "Web 2.0".
The tacit knowledge will exist in the Web 2.0, I mean.
Not only the individuals but also all the members of the organization should see the same direction, "Nourth Magnetic".
From now, it expects that the tacit knowledge in addition to the previous knowledge Hagel-san appointed to the importance of Web 2.0 at this time.

Al

Hi John

great post as have teh other you have written about this 'meme'. Rather thyan comment here (too much text) I have posted SOA vs Web 2.0 :
http://www.folknology.com/blog/1/1/2006/4/27/400

Sorry I don't have a Trackback capability at the mo.

regards
Al

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